Veteran music producer and publisher Chuck Tennin brings over 50 years of industry experience to a candid conversation about why AI will never replace the human heart of music creation. From the warmth of analog tape to the irreplaceable instinct of a record producer who climbs inside every song, this conversation cuts through the hype to explore what truly makes music real.
At NAMM 2026, Sean Martin sits down with Chuck Tennin, the President and CEO of Big Fish Music and Big Fish Music Publishing Group, for a candid conversation about the role of AI in the music industry and why the human element remains irreplaceable. Known as "The Big Fish" and "The Alligator," Chuck has spent more than five decades working as an engineer, record producer, music publisher, and consultant, and he pulls no punches when it comes to the limits of technology in creative work.
Chuck draws a sharp line between AI as a tool and AI as a replacement for human creativity. He points to organizations like ASCAP, BMI, and the Recording Academy as allies in the fight to protect the creative process, arguing that AI cannot replicate the feel, the instinct, and the emotional investment that go into producing a record. For Chuck, the difference between producing music and producing a record is everything: a record has to connect with an audience on a level that no algorithm can manufacture.
The conversation takes listeners through Chuck's journey from two-track analog recording to the digital era of Pro Tools, exploring how each technological leap brought efficiency but never fully captured the warmth and authenticity of tape. He reflects on the critical distinction between an MP3 and a WAV file, between convenience and quality, and between what sounds good enough and what sounds like a record.
Chuck also shares hard-earned wisdom about the business side of music: the perseverance required, the reality that 90% of aspiring artists fail, and the belief in oneself that separates survivors from those who walk away. Drawing on stories from legendary artists he has worked with over the decades, he reminds listeners that every big name started in the same place and climbed out of the same struggle.
This is a conversation about what technology can assist with and what it can never touch: the soul of music and the humans who create it.
Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine, Studio C60, and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast & Music Evolves Podcast | Website: https://www.seanmartin.com/
Chuck Tennin, President and CEO of Big Fish Music and Big Fish Music Publishing Group | On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuck-tennin-3468b6105/
The NAMM Show 2026 is taking place from January 20-24, 2026 | Anaheim Convention Center, Southern California — Follow our coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/the-namm-show-2026-namm-music-conference-music-technology-event-coverage-anaheim-california
Music Evolves: Sonic Frontiers Newsletter | https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/7290890771828719616/
chuck tennin, big fish music, sean martin, AI in music, analog vs digital recording, record producer, music publishing, Pro Tools, ASCAP, BMI, Recording Academy, NAMM 2026, music industry, human creativity, songwriting, music, creativity, art, artist, musician, music evolves, music podcast, music and technology podcast
[00:00:00] Sean Martin: Let's have some fun.
[00:00:02] Chuck Tennin: Okay.
[00:00:03] Sean Martin: Chuck Tenin.
[00:00:03] Chuck Tennin: Chuck Tenin.
[00:00:04] Sean Martin: How are you man?
It's
[00:00:05] Chuck Tennin: a big fish.
[00:00:06] Sean Martin: The big fish.
[00:00:06] Chuck Tennin: Big fish.
[00:00:07] Sean Martin: I, I hear you're called the alligator as well.
[00:00:09] Chuck Tennin: The alligator, yes. Why tell, tell us that story. That's, that's because I get what I want.
[00:00:14] Sean Martin: There you go. You push through and, and uh, you get your way.
[00:00:17] Chuck Tennin: Yeah.
[00:00:17] Sean Martin: I met you yesterday and it's been a pleasure, my friend.
[00:00:19] Chuck Tennin: That's right.
[00:00:20] Sean Martin: I met you. We've had some good chats. We've had some good chats. So we just, we're gonna spend a few minutes here, we're gonna do a longer conversation later. Okay. We're gonna talk about all the cool things you've been up to over the years, but today we're Nam 2026. We just heard a futurist talk.
He gave him a c plus rating for his, uh, for his talk. I think he was a good speaker. He was a good speaker. I've heard a lot of this stuff before. 'cause I cover the tech space a lot. Yeah. Not just music. Um, so I think I've heard a lot of this stuff. So in that regard, not a lot of new things for me. But you had a, a c plus rating because why?
[00:00:54] Chuck Tennin: Because he was, he didn't tell me anything that I don't know.
[00:00:58] Sean Martin: There you go. [00:01:00]
[00:01:00] Chuck Tennin: And
[00:01:00] Sean Martin: so let, let's, let's connect that to music and the music industry and, uh, your thoughts on where things are headed.
[00:01:05] Chuck Tennin: The music industry is against ai. It can be used as a tool, but it's not gonna do what they. What their expectations are claiming it will do.
Because you can't replace the human brain. You can't replace the creative talent. The AI can't record music or write songs or imitate somebody else. They're not gonna allow that to happen. No, that's uh. There,
[00:01:41] Sean Martin: there's a lot in that statement 'cause we've had some conversations and panel discussions with lawyers and music rights folks, and I think it, it's an interesting space legally wise, legality wise and ethically.
And, and I think some things you're gonna have to change for sure. And I'm, so tell me, tell me about, [00:02:00] tell me about some of your experiences working with
[00:02:02] Chuck Tennin: Okay. Well, when you, well, you know, one other thing.
[00:02:03] Sean Martin: Yeah.
[00:02:04] Chuck Tennin: As CAP and BMI, the uh, uh, societies. Uh, in the music industry and the recording academy and others are really against AI because it's taking the creativeness creativeness away.
[00:02:20] Sean Martin: Yeah.
[00:02:21] Chuck Tennin: And like I say, it's a tool. Oh, we all need tools. You can find bigger and better ways of doing things, but it's not gonna replace the realness of the industry. It would, it would phony it up and it would never be the real thing. You could, you could ask it questions that can help
[00:02:42] Sean Martin: you. I'm gonna be a little alligator advocate.
Devils have alligator advocate.
[00:02:46] Chuck Tennin: Okay. Yes.
[00:02:47] Sean Martin: Well, I'm just thinking, well, we heard some, some of the things, even John uh, Atlantic talked about some of the old disruptive technologies in the past, and I, I'm just so I know the. The entertainment [00:03:00] industry, uh, movies in particular. There's, there's SAG aftra, and they had the whole strike around AI and all this stuff.
So there's a lot of contention around it. But if we look at animated movies, right, those aren't real. No animations, right? There's 3D and then all kinds of renderings. People like that stuff too.
[00:03:18] Chuck Tennin: Well, they're for entertainment,
[00:03:20] Sean Martin: right?
[00:03:20] Chuck Tennin: Kids like it,
[00:03:21] Sean Martin: right? So tell what I want to do is it's easy to. Talk about this in, in an abstract fashion or in very obtuse, in obtuse fashion.
Um, tell me about some of the experiences you've had working with some artists, working with producers, working in the studio where you think it might help with this little bit, but it's gonna fall over because the human is not part of it or the human is not there, or the, it's not really human. Gimme an experience where you think.
I did something with, with an artist or a producer that you just can't replicate 'cause it was a moment or [00:04:00] whatever. Tell me,
[00:04:01] Chuck Tennin: you know, you know, you take, when recording used to be an analog and now it's digital analog was better because it was the warmth of tape. And they try to duplicate that and they combine the things.
But some of the best recordings ever done were done on tape and, uh. And they've tried to duplicate that, but the warmth is not as good as it used to be. But, you know, digital, uh, technologies get better and better and better. But how far is it gonna go? What more can it do you
[00:04:38] Sean Martin: get what you get? 16 tracks, 32 tracks.
[00:04:41] Chuck Tennin: Hey, I started in, in, in two track, eight track 24 track. But. It was the warmth, the analog worked, and so they tried to carry over the analog. When they came out with Pro Tools, the [00:05:00] real purpose of it was to make a shortcut to edit things, and then they figured out ways that, wow, you can use all this and you can make it a, a lot quicker and, and, and do things better.
Yeah, you can, but warmth is feel and you gotta have that feel. Sounds gotta be real. You can, you can tell the difference, just like people don't understand. MP three to wave file MP three is so compressed. It's good for listening, but I'd never give it to radio. I'd never give it to an executive because I want.
The real thing that I recorded, I don't want it compressed down. 'cause it loses a lot.
[00:05:51] Sean Martin: Yeah.
[00:05:52] Chuck Tennin: It's, and, and, and you can send it on, on the internet, but you can't really send wave file because it's [00:06:00] too big. But it's better and it'll always be better until they come up with something else. Right.
[00:06:05] Sean Martin: Any other experiences, um, where you think the, the human is not replaced?
[00:06:10] Chuck Tennin: I found that one aspect, you know, there's what you'd call a producer of music and a record producer. They're two different animals Anybody can produce. Anybody can produce music. But a record producer, it's gotta feel like and sound like a record, and I don't care if you have to. When you're recording it, you do the best you can because music was never meant to be perfect and nobody has a crystal ball.
They can spend millions of dollars and put something in the marketplace. It can fail. If people don't like it, they're not gonna buy it. What I learned is that when I'm [00:07:00] recording, I climb inside the song. I look at every aspect, every little sound. So I'm doing it for me, but I'm doing it for the audience.
'cause they're the ones that you gotta sell, the ones that buy it and it better sound like a record. It doesn't matter how many times you mix something. If it isn't right, it's no good.
[00:07:24] Sean Martin: Keep going.
[00:07:25] Chuck Tennin: Yeah. And I learned that you climb inside and you sit there and every little thing means something till you get it to a point where you feel it's right.
And not just for you. You gotta put it out there for the audience. You want them to like it. I've had people say, oh, hey Chuck, I love that. Well, if they don't tell me I gotta have it now, where can I buy it? So anybody can tell you they like it, it's good. That doesn't mean anything. What means something is when it connects, and you can [00:08:00] be a starving artist, starving songwriter.
And overnight you can go and be a millionaire, takes one song, but who knows? There's no crystal ball.
[00:08:14] Sean Martin: Yeah, AI
[00:08:14] Chuck Tennin: sense, everything. Everything in business, you take the risk, whatever it costs you to do it, you're taking a risk. But in business, if you don't take the risk, you're not gonna succeed. If you succeed, well, God bless, you know, you did the right thing and people liked it.
I've been around for 50 years.
[00:08:35] Sean Martin: How many NAMS have you been to?
[00:08:37] Chuck Tennin: Probably 30.
[00:08:38] Sean Martin: 30 nams.
[00:08:39] Chuck Tennin: 30 years of that? Yeah. Or 30 or more. But I've been doing, I've been doing publishing.
I've been an engineer studio, live recordings, which was a challenge. I've produced records. I have two publishing companies. [00:09:00] I do marketing and consulting, and now I like to see upcoming young, new talent. There's always room for them to help them get their foot in the door 'cause it's a very hard business.
It's, and you know, I look at music companies, most of them, they're like a bank, a mortgage company, a loan company. They have investors. They want to make money, and that's what they want. If you don't make 'em money, you're gone. But there's been every, uh, every big name artist that I worked with. They all started from the same place.
They climbed out of the same gutter and worked their way up. And God bless, most of them failed. Some of them succeeded. And uh, a lot of 'em now, they don't make records anymore. They're doing what they always wanted to do, [00:10:00] perform live to their audience. And, uh, but they all started the same way. I've, I've.
Heard stories from big name artists that be careful what you wish for. Mm-hmm. If you're not prepared to step in and go all the way, because it's a business of rejection and survival and, and belief in oneself. And if you ever allow somebody to take that away from you, you lose. But it's not easy. It's not just writing a song, recording an album.
It takes a lot to launch a career, and most of them don't succeed, but the ones that do great,
[00:10:48] Sean Martin: perseverance.
[00:10:48] Chuck Tennin: You know what?
[00:10:49] Sean Martin: Perseverance.
[00:10:50] Chuck Tennin: I've worked with some of the biggest legends artists and groups, and they all started the same way. [00:11:00] I've heard horror stories, how they were treated, but they were survivors.
They wanted to do that. And uh, it's, uh, it's a very hard, cruel business. But in the society we live in, necessary business is tough,
[00:11:16] Sean Martin: but it's music at the core.
[00:11:18] Chuck Tennin: Yes.
[00:11:18] Sean Martin: Which we need as humans.
[00:11:19] Chuck Tennin: Yes. We need, we need music. Music soothes the soul and stimulates the brain. And, uh, I do all kinds of genres of music.
Country, gospel, rock, pop, hip hop, uh, uh, orchestral, uh, I create different kinds of music.
[00:11:41] Sean Martin: I love that challenge.
[00:11:41] Chuck Tennin: And, and it's, it's the challenge, but you have to work hard at it, and it, it takes a lot of effort. It's not something, there's no magical wand for anybody in that business. [00:12:00] A lot of 'em, there's more people trying now, find people that'll put the money in it.
But how many make it, I'd say 90% fail. 10% might make a good living at it. But they worked hard. Yeah. And if you could sit down with them and interview 'em. And tell 'em how they started, what they went through. Huh? They told me stories that, be careful what you wish for. You might get it, but be prepared for survival, rejection.
But the antidote is belief. Belief in oneself. If you allow anybody to destroy that, you lose. But it's something, you make a commitment and you either are in or you're not in. And, uh, it's a really tough thing. There's no give mes, but I think, I think the creative aspect in music is [00:13:00] always gonna be there.
You create it, the real thing, it's gotta feel like music. It's gotta be sound like music. It's gotta be something that you put your heart into doing, and you do the best you can because music was never meant to be perfect. Just like human beings, just like any business. But you have to, you go into it and take the risk or don't do it, do something else.
Like I was told once by an artist, by the name of Deborah Harry, she had a group called Blondie, said, people that want to get into music, need their head examined, don't quit your job. And she was right. And uh. If you hear the stories of how people started, they tell me they all climbed out of the same gutter and people at the top.
If they didn't tell [00:14:00] you that they didn't climb out of the same gutter that you did, they're full of shit. Because they all did.
[00:14:06] Sean Martin: We're gonna do a proper chat. Okay. Talk about all those stories.
[00:14:10] Chuck Tennin: We didn't talk about fishing yet.
[00:14:11] Sean Martin: We didn't,
[00:14:12] Chuck Tennin: or we didn't talk about all the artists.
I did. We didn't talk.
[00:14:15] Sean Martin: No, that's, that's the next conversation.
[00:14:16] Chuck Tennin: We'll do that.
[00:14:17] Sean Martin: Yeah.
[00:14:17] Chuck Tennin: Okay.
[00:14:18] Sean Martin: No, I appreciate your thoughts on AI and, uh,
[00:14:19] Chuck Tennin: all the
[00:14:20] Sean Martin: stuff. You, you,
[00:14:20] Chuck Tennin: well, ai, it's a tool and you know what? It's gonna be there. They're trying to make it better and bigger. Spend more money. And give you the illusion that it's going to change your life.
And you know what? It's not. You write or create music, you do it for real and you feel it. AI can't feel it. It's just telling you. Then it, maybe it's shortcut, but that's about it. But I don't think
[00:14:53] Sean Martin: it's some, I can't, I wish I remember who said it yesterday, but they talked about the process of creating a song with AI and it.[00:15:00]
Basically was the first step, and then everything else was the human going through the whole thing. So, Chuck, it's been a pleasure, my friend. There's,
[00:15:07] Chuck Tennin: there is a difference. It's a pleasure. All right. It is a pleasure.
[00:15:10] Sean Martin: Thanks everybody. We'll, uh, catch you here from NAM 2026. Okay.